CNN Paula Zahn Now-Transcript

CNN Paula Zahn Now-Transcript

ZAHN: Welcome back to our special "Out in the Open" hour on whether the Iraq war has turned into another Vietnam.

My next guest fought in Vietnam and served on the Senate Armed Services Committee as the U.S. moved towards war with Iraq. At Khe Sanh in 1968, a grenade took Max Cleland's legs and one of his arms. In the 1970s, he was in charge of the Veterans Administration under President Carter. And he was elected to the Senate in 1996 as a Democrat from Georgia.

He voted in favor of the Iraq war, but now says it is the worst vote he ever cast.

Former Senator Max Cleland joins us tonight.

Always good to see you, sir. Welcome.

MAX CLELAND (D), FORMER U.S. SENATOR: Thanks, Paula.

ZAHN: I wanted to start off tonight by playing something Senator John McCain had to say today about the war in Iraq on the Senate floor. Let's listen together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Iraq is not Vietnam, Mr. President.

We were able to walk away from Vietnam. If we walk away from Iraq now, we risk a failed state in the heart of the Middle East, a haven for international terrorists, an invitation to regional war in this economically vital area, and a humanitarian disaster that could involve millions of people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So, you just heard what John McCain said: This is not the Vietnam War.

But you say this is the Vietnam War on steroids. Why?

CLELAND: Yes, it is. It is the Vietnam War on steroids.

As a matter of fact, may I just say that John McCain is my brother and my friend, and I trust my life to him, but we have a difference of opinion here. We had hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese come and be willing to die to take out Americans.

You have a guerrilla war here in Iraq that is like that. First of all, neither -- neither commander in chief, neither Lyndon Johnson nor President Bush, thought there would be significant casualties. Secondly, near secretary of defense, near McNamara nor Rumsfeld, put in enough troops initially to secure the battlefield.

And why is that important? Because you have got to isolate the guerrilla, or else, as they say in guerrilla warfare, if the guerrilla doesn't lose, he wins. So, you never isolated the battlefield in Vietnam. You're not isolating the battlefield in Iraq. And, so, therefore, the guerrilla continues to win.

And, ultimately, we will go home. We're not going to make Iraq the 51st state. We couldn't make Vietnam the 51st state. So, here's -- here's our forces out there, four years down the road, getting killed and blown up and maimed.

ZAHN: How guilty do those of you feel about authorizing this war?

CLELAND: I feel terribly guilty. This is not in the national security interests of the United States to have the American ground forces engaged in Iraq, up against 25 million Iraqis.

It's the Iraqis that are killing Americans. Al Qaeda is in there to a certain extent, but it's the Iraqi people that don't want us there. We're the foreigners, just like we were the foreigners in Vietnam.

ZAHN: So, sir, what do you think is the most powerful lesson of Vietnam that this administration hasn't learned?

CLELAND: That we should not commit American military ground forces into another country, especially to take out a regime, and expect anything other than total chaos, which is what we have created in Iraq. So, we misjudged Iraq because we did not learn the strategic lessons of Vietnam.

ZAHN: Do you think the war in Iraq can ever be won?

CLELAND: No. Western powers don't fight wars of attrition well. The United States doesn't fight wars of attrition well. We had a 10-year war in Vietnam, and, ultimately, the cost was not worth the candle. Having been through that personally, and paid a price for it, I can tell you, this is like going through Vietnam for me again.

And my fellow Vietnam veterans, they say, you know -- you know, Iraq is Vietnam without water. So, for us, it's deja vu all over again. And -- and the -- the crime is, the grief part of this is that we're making the same mistakes by not gauging the enemy, understanding what guerrillas can do for you.

When you have people that are willing to step out in front of you and die just to take you out, you're in a guerrilla war, and you can't win it. This president thought you could go in and take out Saddam Hussein, and everything would be fine.

No. Absolute chaos and hell broke loose. And that's exactly what we have got now. And we're in deep trouble. And we -- we -- we really have a disaster on our hands. And it's time to end it.

ZAHN: Senator Max Cleland, thank you for your time. Really appreciate it.

CLELAND: Thank you.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0703/14/pzn.01.html